Aquaponics
Aquaponics is the raising of both fish and plants for food. Waste from the fish is used to fertilize the plants.
E-mails from Brian
From #20
#36 Overall
September 9 2020 1:46AM
"Is it possible to simplify all the issues with veganism into one, which is scale?"
Scale itself can only be accomplished if the environment, including the entire planet's biosphere, can maintain an atmospheric loop cycle. Carbon dioxide, oxygen, and nitrogen especially. What building a pyramid as your domicilie does just from practical standpoint, is triple the foot space. Vegetables, fruits, and various other plants will grow all over it, if you design it that way. Being a Vegan when that has already taken place on a large enough scale that you can feel comfortable and safe from theft or war... is a strong possibility. There is a lot that needs to occur in order for that reality to start taking shape. As I've said prior, being a Vegan in today's society is only possible from a heavily subsidized crude oil economy. The amount of produce that flies all over the world and/or gets shipped on a boat, transported to the holding facility, shipped to a distributor, then shipped from the distributor to the grocery store. But wait, there's more... Then the buyer of the produce has to drive their vehicle to and from work, then to and from the grocery store. Unless there is an onboard aquaponics system in place that is run on pure solar, off grid, that can maintain light variations to keep the vegetables growing all year round, every single Vegan NEEDS the crude oil economy to function. When it comes to a community, absolutely not.
…
"Overall the truly important question is whether there are environmentally healthy ways of growing plants and if so, what are all of the details involved in doing so."
Like I explained above, once the civilization is founded upon equilibrium, sustainability, and cohesion, being a Vegan will probably be the norm just because of the lack in required physical labor and self defense strategies. That COULD BE a few generations into the future, or it could take thousands of years to appear, or it may never happen. The opportunity for a self sustaining Vegan community in the near future is close to zero. Not because of the ability for it to occur, but more so because of the lack in ability to sustain. I am a very big supporter of aquaponics. I had a very nice set up that I was planning installing myself before this all started. But even that requires meat to produce in any meaningful way. Plants to animals, and animals to plants. In a world of dwindling resources and starvation on the horizon, the animals must play a role in sustenance. They are imperative to sustaining any kind of land production. As far as the land goes, that will all depend on how much water you can produce. The water availability will decide how many animals any plot can sustain. That's why I'm also a huge supporter of water farming in those areas. Water is the largest factor in any land viability solution, other than aquaponics ironically. After the pyramids get built, I would build planter boxes, yes. I'm not too sure where the piezoelectric hypothesis started or why they think that particular motive exists for those structures, but that picture I posted some time ago is how I would design the gardens.
Planter bowls.
#38 Overall
September 9 2020 6:43PM
"Does your regenerative grazing method reduce the amount of land needed to raise cattle?"
No. What it does it make diversifying the land over several different animal species. Shane is going to implement chickens to clean up the grasshopper problems. Personally, I'd devise a catching system rigged to a simple vacuum and use the bugs for food in an aquaponics system, but that's his plan. For the stuff that the cows, then chickens, wouldn't eat, goats would clean up the material. Imagine the entire field is like a pizza where the three individually pinned species were ever moving around the circle, and all three were fertilizing the land as they cleaned it up of brush and insects. In the middle is the water system. Shane can accomplish this right now, but the time dedication is too intense. That is the main reason why I want to start farming water there. To have it on demand when the sun is plentiful. He's connected to a well system right now. An underground river system from what I understand of it. Not enough to water the land, but enough to keep the cows watered. He does use hay, but the ground he gets it from grows wild. It's not perfect by any means, but is sustainable and efficient as all hell. His land looks wild because it is. Most cattlemen just turn them loose on the entire property. Their land is eaten down to the point of it looking like a lawn. That's a problem for the various other creatures native to the area that handle other problems. . Shane has badgers, coyotes, rabbits, snakes, horny toads, road runners, fox, all kinds of birds (a few he built houses for), deer and all kinds of insects. It's healthy. The cow poop doesn't even make it three or four days above ground there. The dung beetles have returned in huge numbers. Even I was astonished at how fast they work. The entire property could be vacated of farming right now and be designated wild territory. That is true stewardship. Complementing the land as it is naturally, and extracting the "profits." That is when you are doing BETTER... than equilibrium. If/when I am able to start working on my windmills, I'll be able to install some sort of air pressure system, then his entire farm energy can be off grid, sustainable, plentiful, and with a bad motherfucker protecting it. I feel very sorry for the man that tries to fuck with Shane after the collapse. It will not turn out well. I forgot to mention his fencing system (electric) is run on a solar panel. 1 small one connected to a battery. The pumps are also run by it, so his water is already off grid, technically.
I'm totally down with gardening. I love vegetables and eat them as often as possible. Just because I am in favor of cattle rearing doesn't mean I'm opposed to gardening. It's my opinion that the land should be used to mitigate our footprint in it as much as possible. Vegetable gardening with soil is the opposite of that, so the crops for it need to be dense. Potatoes are a very good option. When it comes to salad green, cucumbers, tomatoes, etc, the footprint should be extremely compact and based in the aquaponic variety. That system produces the largest yields, is the least impactful on the environment, and gives motive to stop fishing the oceans to extinction. The gardens I would like to grow go upwards or downwards, not outwards. For the soils that I do have to use for the more needy varieties of vegetables, I'd use pots. My base would be red wiggler worm castings. I'm very familiar with them, and they make food delicious. All natural, even the food I feed the worms is organic and natural. They made my lemon cucumbers explode, and my tomatoes were amazing. The scraps just get pureed and fed back to the worms. I haven't tried fertilizing potatoes with it, but I'm sure it would help. I have grown potatoes on a few occasions, but the area was too wet. It was never a good crop. My eventual idea is to turn all of the waste from making cellulosic ethanol into the worm's feed stocks. then fertilizing cattle land with it for fruit trees and grass. I've already done all of this on a small scale. I want more bugs. More fish food. I want the land to have everything it needs to produce these things on its own. The ethanol making cattail littered holding pools will also help with the worm feed and fertilizer. The actual gardening system I am seeing is different than the normal version now. I would start with Shane's model, then add to it underground, and above ground. There aren't many people that think like that in the agriculture world, because it's sustainable on its own. There aren't really any profits other than free energies scattered throughout your own little carbon dioxide cycle loop. Well... that is until you find research time and build your hydrogen stuff. That's a ways into the future, though. So basically, it doesn't produce more cattle, but the cattle it produces are enormously more healthy for you, and the diversity is present. There's a dynamic that is not seen, and that is the biodiversity. They all complement each other, and all pieces of the carbon dioxide cycle loop are accounted for, sustainable, and therefore neutral... even the cows. It's a complete environmental scope that is rarely accounted for completely with "profits." Maybe that better answers the question at hand.
…
People will always want to eat fish. I get that, and understand the real mechanisms for why. That is why aquaponics are severely needed to reset the oceanic biosphere. If the fish stocks are raised and consumed outside of the oceanic paradigm, there is no reason to continue slaughtering the wild fish stocks. Again, this is a sacrifice that every human must decide to partake in of their own volition. I live this way now, by the way. I eat 1 meal a day, and usually it's balanced. If 2/3rds of the meals consumed by humans now were stopped immediately, the biosphere might recuperate. It's not a definite fix, but it is a step to rebuilding the wildlife on Earth. The food situation will not always be this way, but right now it is a necessary move. As I've said many times now, I wouldn't recommend anything that I would not also partake in. I'm partaking in this situation's solution now without anyone else capitulating. That's how serious I see these problems being. I can't speak for the majority of humanity, but if humanity wants to survive, this is the only viable path to that end. Just like the rest of the food and energy stores of the future, if you cannot produce it yourself, leave it alone. Fishing is no different. I'm not saying to stop eating fish, I'm saying humanity needs to stop fishing wild fish. To be honest, I have no idea how long that type of moratorium should last. The accumulation of carbon dioxide will continue to increase, and the deadzone phenomenon will follow suit. It could be a very long time before the oceans can be sustainably fished at the current capacity. The thing is, nobody really knows because of how vast and complex the ocean wildlife is. Anyone who contradicts what I just said is lobbying for profits. The health of the ocean and planet by proxy doesn't even enter their equation. There are problems we are creating now that won't be fully understood or felt by the populace for decades to come. The only motivation anyone should have concerning this matter is, if we lose the oceans, we lose the planet; omnicide, or Salvation. Keeps coming up doesn't it? Anyways, that's how I feel about hunting and fishing. I'm not emotionally attached to the stigmas of consuming wild animal protein. My concerns are based on practical application and sustainability. What we are doing now is as far away from those goals as anything...
From
#73
January 19 2021 12:44AM
When I got hurt, ALL of my personal pursuits to that point immediately stopped. It was very sudden. Seriously; 1 day I was bowling and working out, then the next day was the beginning of never doing that again. Lost my career, my body, and my hobbies in "1" shot. What I understand now, however, is that my skillset was being redirected to what I really wanted, NOT what I thought I wanted at the time. While drugged out of my mind during recovery, I formed several different "inventions," and learned several new skills that I wouldn't have learned unless I was hurt. I had a very good working knowledge of hydroponics, but added aquaponics and soil growth via red wiggler worm casting recycling using food scraps and cow shit as a base to my repertoire. Ended up growing the most tasty vegetable garden of my entire life as a result the following summer. Even the I only had 1ish hands to use, I took up stone masonry and built a couple retaining walls and a few flagstone pathways. We planted an amazing flower garden along the driveway and I redid the driveway itself. That's when I began using loaders and excavators. In order to be as precise as possible, while maintaining beauty and function, I downloaded Google Sketchup to map everything I wanted to do and see it before it was done. During the long nights that followed the hard days of work with only 1ish hands, I studied 3D printing. I ended up buying a Makerbot and built a few things to compliment my aquaponics knowledge, as well as some minor projects for friends and family.
From
#117
April 1 2021 11:19PM
Between the quarry and peak, the dirt will be excavated and moved to the farming area to sculpt it with regenerative grazing as the focus. Depending how deep excavation goes, more granite will be quarried. That area is where the lake will go. It's the highest area on the plot, so a dam and micro hydro system will be installed. This is also the water supply for the humans, animals and crops, along with the supply for the aquaponics systems at the base of the Pyramids. The land naturally sits to make all of these systems function with the least amount of effort employed from the start.
#289
September 16 2021 6:43PM
For starters, commercial
operations are why humanity has found themselves outside of the
security that sustainability provides. When I discussed grain
production I was referring to the methods used for the 40,000ish
years of grain production methods prior to the inception of an oil
economy. That takes a community and planning. Laborious? Yes.
Difficult? Yes. Sustainable and rewarding? Definitely. Centralization
is the enemy of sustainability, but that doesn't imply that singular
homesteading or going "innawoods" is a solution to
anything. In reality those types of ideologies are just a scaled down
version of centralization, where the individuals participating are
attempting to maximize their land's potential for profiteering by
other means. Individuals that try this type of isolation will
ultimately be in a position of abundance. At which point they will
hold that abundance over others with less fortunate circumstances.
Usury, indentured servitude, and other forms of taxation are the
result of such enterprises. This has been a well documented
phenomenon since humanity "lost touch" with their creator.
Obtain skill, use skill to build leverage against fellow humans,
accumulate control/power from the leverage, then fight to maintain
the structure generationally. Been there, done that thousands of
times, doesn't work. It may seem appealing to one's desires of
individuality, sovereignty, or security, but those are the same
desires that have led humanity towards this precipice of collapse
with no ability to recover. So... no. I was in no way, shape or form
insinuating that commercial pursuits of any kind concerning
sustenance were applicable.
What I assume he is asking about has to do with aquaponics. Given the circumstances of the environment he's pursuing, I would recommend trout. The real issue inherent to closed systems like aquaponics is scale, and application of the meat raised in such a system. While scaled down systems can provide an abundance of food, the mechanics will almost certainly be reliant on electricity. Using air pressure systems to provide the thrust necessary for water circulation in aquaponics will be a constant draw incapable of shocks to the system. That's a workable problem, but the cost input to sustenance output will be a net negative. Although aquaponic fish farming as a staple of sustenance seems like viable sustainable practice in the current societal paradigm, it's a closed system and offers very little benefit to the land itself. If humanity was in a position of equilibrium with the land, a closed aquaponics system would seem like a waste of resources, and there's a few reasons for that...
The first is that the vegetation
grown from nitrate and nitrite inundation (fish shit) doesn't have a
massive return on investment, considering the fish food must also be
grown or accumulated from the surrounding environment. That means
that although the system appears to be closed, it is dependent upon
external means to remain "closed." That translates to a tax
on the environment that must be sustained in and of its own. The
types of vegetables best suited for aquaponics are leafy greens,
lettuces, herbs, spices, tomatoes, and cucumbers from my experience.
Utilizing flood and drain, or ebb and flow systems, which are also
the least energy intensive methods, are ideal for that type of
production. Aeroponics, where the reservoir is fogged or misted by a
mechanical device to provide aeration to the root system of the
plants is energy intensive. Doable, yes, but the issue of how
intermittent the energy source is providing that mechanical rotation
will be a concern, especially in a cooler climate. During winter
months, micro hydro and steady predictable wind is an issue. This
could be a workable problem, but again you're looking at a net
negative for the energy input to sustenance output equation. One
method would be to build a nitinol generator, but again putting that
much effort into fish, and vegetables is overboard for the return. On
a singular level, dreamt up by an ideology of individual
sustainability, that might make sense. There are many people that can
create a sophisticated system on their own, and simply live out their
time alive fat and happy, but that's not real sustainability, nor is
that a method of achieving equilibrium. I'm not trying to shoot
anyone's dreams down here, I'm just trying to be realistic as to the
parameters of transcendence.
The second issue, but closely related to the first is fish food capable of sustaining vibrant vegetation growth year round. In cooler climates this means light supplementation during winter months, as well as a closed environment similar to a greenhouse. In other words, more electricity. The other problem of making the food itself is fairly simple. There will be a lot of waste in growing applicable vegetables in an aquaponics system, which is actually a good thing if you don't mind more labor. European earthworms, and/or red wiggler worms are great composters of pretty much all forms of vegetation. The scraps and waste from human food leftovers can sustain a healthy population of worms, which can then be used to feed the fish. The only issue will then be designing the size of worm farm to sustain the amount of fish food. During plumes of summer emergence of various other types of insects can supplement, but you won't want to be in a position of lacking. Basically, what this, the greenhouse, lighting, etc means to a cooler climate is that you will have to take advantage of geothermal. Digging, by means of a substantial amount of physical labor is required. Worm farms can do very well in 60 degree environments, but that means going deep. At least 8 feet deep in most areas of the world, and that's where the roof will be. Again, doable, but very labor intensive initially. So, you'll be burying the worm farm, nitinol engine housing, reservoir and bulk of the growing medium. One thing that can provide assistance to maintaining a thriving environment given the circumstances are Solatubes. I would highly recommend them if this is the route you're willing to pursue. A parabolic dish can be used to multiply light intake for the Solatubes similar to the way solar ovens function. In winter months this can also help to raise heat. The point here is that a lot of digging will almost certainly be required...
The third issue on a scaled down
system is how the fish will sustain themselves through reproduction.
I admit that in aquaponics systems I am unfamiliar with the husbandry
tactics. I am familiar with this process in the "natural"
environment. I have limited experience with fish hatchery procedures.
It's actually fairly simple, but I've only seen it done on a large
scale. Ethanol is integrated into the water to anesthetize the fish,
the eggs are massaged out, then fertilized by milking the males onto
the eggs. The fry are raised separately because the adults will eat
them. This process is a problem for small scale operations because of
how much dead space will be required for when not rearing fry. That
means that a centralized system of reproduction outside of the
aquaponic system will be necessary to achieve sustainability.
Ultimately, this means a community involvement on some level, however
minuscule that will seem to be.
Land raised food animals do not
have these issues. They also sustain themselves and the land. The
bulk of labor shifts to one specific issue: water. "Water
farming" as I've described to Kim in many previous conversations
deals with refrigeration and the collection of condensation from that
refrigerant. I've delved into research on ammonium evaporation, water
evaporation, chemical evaporation (R134a), and geothermal using
ground and deep water recirculation pumps based on reciprocal systems
(which I've referred to as mechanical rotational force to simplify).
All of these systems are absent from electrical energy usage. They're
also based on systems in environments that are lacking the ability to
utilize a hydraulic ram pump from free flowing water sources. If
rivers and streams are available, as is the case with Kim, hydraulic
ram pumps are recommended. From that cavitation technology, and
through the usage of a bell siphon or float valve (similar to a
toilet's) mechanical energy can be recovered. That energy can then be
used to run many different types of systems. I'm not familiar with
northern Michigan, but I would assume stream and river access is much
easier than water farming through refrigeration procedures.
The system in conception would have a deep pond in the middle of the community centered at the highest elevation. A series of 10 or so farms would extend outward from the pond. Imagine a pizza. Anyways, the farms would also resemble a pizza in shape with the watering pool at the center. The "pizza slices" would be sectioned to graze the animals at different intervals. Monthly, weekly, whatever works for the area. Ever rotating, always supplied by water from the pond. Any excessive water would then go to growing more grazing pastures, and resupplying the waterways of the area. This is a system that requires hundreds of people to function properly, but can be scaled down or up to fit the community. If this kind of system sounds familiar, you're not mistaken. This is a basic microcosm of how a galaxy with several solar systems functions. Instead of black holes and stars, though, water is the fuel element. Everything in my conceptions is essentially plagiarized from the creator of the third dimension. The goal is to function within the parameters of the environment, and do the best for elevating the environment's potential while being a conscious steward in the process. That's the real path to an equilibrium. While aquaponics can enhance that ability, as a staple to providing a pathway to an uncollapsable system of land management, it falls short. My goals for personal aquaponics systems have changed over the years. Before my realization, I was in the process of designing a system that would provide my dog with sustainable meat, and grow flowers in the process. The flowers would provide Bees with pollen that I would then harvest for treats and spirits production. I was planning on using coconut coir for growing medium, and the aisles were going to be flood and drain with float valves for release. Wind powered, and intermittent, indeed, but flowers are more forgiving than vegetables. Same strategy of using red wigglers to feed the fish, but I would use the lechin and castings for fertilizer in soil grown food. A word of caution about composting worms; European earthworms are invasive, so if you're planning on using them be careful. If I remember correctly, they're illegal in some places because of this. Check regulations for your area.
From
#290
September 17 2021 2:38AM
This just came up on
my suggestions. Great stuff and plays into the recent topics. Plus,
this guy's from Maine so the environment is similar to what you would
be dealing with.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MNAR8EZd1PA
From #469
March 11 2022 6:16PM
A lot of the methods of farming won't seem economically viable in the current climate because it's not based on profiteering. Underground aquaponics is not a way to produce money, but it is a sustainable method for producing food on a small scale. It'd be difficult to manage a scaled up version for industrial production. I'm not arguing that. Most methods of production I talk about are very similar. The real dilemma anyone faces when contemplating these things is the intention, not the summation. Just about everything has a value in petrodollars that appears to be "cheaper" or more "practical" when value is assessed by the metric of available energy in a crude oil economy. Water farming as an example is "impractical" when it's "cheaper" to build an infrastructure where aquifers divert water from remote locations to drought stricken areas. I mean, why build a pyramid capable of building structures that last for millions of years when the construction industry has trained generations worth of workers to build structures that last less than 100 years? Humanity can just keep building the less sustainable version "for a reasonable price" indefinitely, right? Whenever someone brings up practicality, expense, or "job creation" to me I always think of what their metric of equating that synopsis is based on. 1) They all assume crude oil will last forever, or there's some magical alternative in the future that will replace the infrastructure on a 1:1 basis that the crude oil economy created. 2) They're transfixed on maximizing an immediate return on investment that they themselves can take credit for, and profits from. Nowhere in that equation does sustainability even exist. It's extremely frustrating for me. It's like people trying to equate my ideas to generating electricity as an energy medium to the devices I speak of. They're insinuating a principle of their own inherent inability to understand onto what I say, and that's bullshit. I'd be willing to bet that he thinks that I think running an aquaponics farm system on electricity is the most efficient method. I'd run my pumps on air pressure Di Pietro engines, and light with Solatubes. No electricity at all in MY type of setup, but he's probably not even considering that because of the propaganda surrounding electricity being "green." I'm sorry. I don't mean to insinuate that he's pissing me off by saying stuff like that, but the truth is he is. It's not his fault. There's thousands of people I've gotten into this kind of thing with that mentally project their ideas onto my instructions. I see them doing this, but they never seem to really understand what I'm saying. It's frustrating. I take it like everyone saying to me something to the effect of "humanity is doing everything correctly now, what's your problem, maaan?" Reminds me of the devolution sections of stone construction I showed you from the pictures I took in Peru. Now imagine a modern stick built home with stucco exterior and all the sheetrock, porcelain and hardwood interiors. Now imagine that house, that almost everyone alive right now thinks is some sort of marvel of ingenuity and industry... being built as a fourth layer on top of those prior built stone megalithic structures. It'd be painfully obvious that there's a significant devolution taking place with the most devolved structure as "the crowning jewel" in most people's minds currently sitting at the top. I just don't know how to get people to see what I see, and again, apologies if my frustration is being taken as anger. But after so many of these types of arguments, it's hard to hide it.
From
#476
March 18 2022 11:53PM
"I'm
curious whether he built anything that would help with water farming
and/or aquaponics: I would think so, but I don't have enough detail
to say exactly how."
Definitely. He built a device that was adopted by a company later that controls humidity in a confined space. The use of this device was/is (?) centered around wine cellars and the aging process. Most wine cellars are underground, so stagnant air is a serious issue. Along with stagnant air, particularly underground, comes humidity from ground water and the seepage from above ground weather. Wine is interesting in that you don't want to completely eliminate humidity, but you also don't want to saturate the air with it, otherwise mold becomes a problem. The reason why you don't want it eliminated completely is because wine breathes very slowly through the cork, even though it seems like a seal. That breathing process is controlled by temperature and pressure fluctuations; preferably the pressure side of the equation. The goal is to stabilize the temperature, which is much easier by placing the cellar underground, and allow the pressure fluctuations to be determined by the entering and exiting of the cellar by people. That's the basic philosophy behind why wine cellars are what they are. I'm not sure if the device I'm speaking about was something built by Shauberger himself, or later copied from his theoretical approach to understanding water movements, but I have seen this device in a video watched long ago. It's completely passive with no moving parts, very similar to the majority of Shauberger's devices. It's suspended from a ceiling, and does not require energy input outside of regular environmental implements. It does regulate humidity within a confined space, as well as the saturation in the surrounding soil very well, as these devices are in use in a few wine cellars.
Where this technology intrigued me, and might have been responsible for putting me on a path that intersected with the main body of Shauberger's work, was in aquaponics. I, and anyone for that matter that got into hydroponics, aquaponics, and aeroponics indoors, has a serious issue in controlling humidity. Temperature, and by extension humidity control, is the biggest hurdle to maintaining a healthy aquaponic system. It becomes a severe drain on the viability and cost associated with indoor farming of any kind. Commercial humidity control is very draining. This philosophy of tackling this dilemma birthed the idea of large scale "water farming" to me many years ago. My first conception was to use the retrieved water from my humidifier to water the outside soil garden. I even built a stand to elevate the dehumidifier and piped in the collection tank that had a float valve that would shut down the dehumidifier when full. That was the reason for the whole setup beyond humidity control itself: to create a system that never shut down. There were times where I would take trips for weeks at a time, and the tank needed to be emptied daily. So I piped it in and directed the accumulated water outside. I also installed fresh water reservoirs connected to float valves in the aeroponic reservoirs themselves. The system allowed the water to never run the reservoir dry, and it was automated to run by itself in conjunction with the dehumidifier emptying the evaporative transpiration humidity as the plants emitted it. I had my system tuned to run without interference from me directly for 2 week intervals, as long as the light timers and light rails functioned as designed, the TDS (total dissolved solids) remained at a viable saturation to the age of the plants, and the pH was steady at around 6.2. I never had any real problems, and the system I built for aeroponics took barely any work at all to maintain. In an aquaponics system, the workload would decrease even further because the fish would regulate nutrient saturation and pH, then it's just an issue of finding the correct genetic strains of plant that complement the fish's natural regulatory state. I didn't make it that far in my setup at the time, but it was going to be fundamental to the aquaponic system I was in the process of building in Cloverdale when my realization happened. Of course that system was primarily outdoors, though. I wanted access for bees, deer, and other critters. Anyways, I digress... The idea at that time was to save energy from the dehumidifier sucking it all up. The system worked, but it was draining to the point where growing marijuana was the only real economically viable crop for the system. Growing vegetables was not really practical with that much energy expenditure, at least not from an economic standpoint. That's how I came to study more passive systems of humidity control, and subsequently found my way to Shauberger's work. Just for posterity, that was about 20 years ago.
Jay Harman, the "inventor" of the lily impeller was what restimulated my interest in Shauberger's philosophy of water movement. When I first started seeing the lily impeller popping up in videos and whatnot, I knew I had seen similar research elsewhere at some point. The vortex model was an interesting dilemma for Jay Harman while trying to create his discovery. Apparently, from interviews with him, his goal was to freeze a vortex in place suddenly, then recreate the shape. He used a washing machine if memory serves, and I don't remember how he was able to freeze the vortex in place, but he did. From that experiment, Jay had a negative mold that he could get a real working model from for the impeller by molding the vortex. All he had to do at that point was to make multiple flutes from the shape acquired, thus the lily impeller was "invented." Anyways, same philosophy as Shauberger, but used in a more commercial and direct way. Shauberger seemed to want to do everything from a more passive stance. Both are great observations from a natural, and thusly Divine perspective. The interesting intersection for me was the hydroidal vortex that Shauberger used to stimulate energy production from falling streams. The lily impeller has immediate commercial viability in water storage systems. Keeping the water moving keeps algae from fouling the system. The lily impeller does this with an impeller as small as a fist, and we're talking storage tanks that are millions of gallons. The energy differential between propellers and impellers is dramatic. Who'd have thunk it? Doing things in the exact opposite fashion of the "conventional" method works for yet another reason...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGYYDGv-1Zc&list=PL66Mj_nOCHo-ZW2VK_mKxozU1YitcKkPq&index=198
3:51 is when the Jay Harman section starts. He explains this intersection I'm speaking about that's in the Shauberger video at 38:10.
Now... all of this being said, I'm not entirely certain about the viability fundamentally from a closed loop aquaponics system. At least not from an internal to the closed loop perspective. Water entering the system, yes. Water exiting the system, definitely, but from what I understand of this phenomenon and technology, it's a purifying process. Within a closed aquaponics system, the goal is to maintain the nitrate and nitrite cycle until the plants can absorb the nutrient base from the water. From the way Shauberger and his researchers explain the phenomenon, the negatively charged ions in the water stimulate purification by solidifying, and/or eliminating toxicity in the dissolved solids themselves. Thing is, that's the plant's job, and without that availability of nutrients, there's no plant food. Good for the fish, but bad for the plants. Regulating the purification of water that gets introduced into the system is a great idea. Also, purifying water that exits the system is not only a good idea, but necessary for an equilibrium outside of closed loop systems. Within the system, there might be a viable usage if the balancing of fish to plant saturation becomes off. Plants and fish grow at differing rates, so the nutrient exchange is never exactly constant. There might be a need for regulation passively at different times, but that would have to be determined by the plant genetics and fish genetics specific to any given system. Regardless of the particulars involved, which is a fascinating subject that I would have loved to experience, it's all valid to maintaining an equilibrium. There's veins of this type of encapsulating knowledge running through lots of subjects, but it all funnels towards the sustenance (food, water and warmth) necessities. Obviously I chose a more dedicated path towards the food and warmth sectors, but there was always this type of research permeating the research I did.
From
#487
March 28 2022 7:52PM
About the Satanic structures, there's many options, as long as it doesn't interfere with zoning bullshit. That's really why it's important to know everything before you get started with a purchase. You might have some idea of what you want to do, but it could be impossible legally. A good no maintenance option for your type of machine shop is a storage container. They're secure, watertight, can be easily placed anywhere, and are very cheap. Plus they can be moved easily so if your plan changes there's no problem. There's also the option of an underground type of setup, maybe even in conjunction with a storage container. Maybe above it where the storage container (shipping container actually) is the entrance. This makes the footprint of structure basically nonexistent, so the land is capable of maximizing food production. You could even dig and put the container itself underground, then there'd be no structural footprint at all. If designed correctly on a hillside, aquaponics would be a breeze for drainage, and the land above would be 100% productive still. Just a few Solatubes at the surface for internal lighting and you're set. This would also make your distillery hidden from anyone looking. I talked to Shane about this exact thing. Burying his Zebo and using the roof as a mount for a wind turbine. Just an access ramp for the buggy, and not even the container would be taking up grazing space. Maximizing the land capability at the surface is the best option. High tunnels are a good idea, but you start to limit other aspects when you build like that. Don't be afraid to dig is all I'm saying. Those steel containers are perfect for the strength necessary for holding up that kind of weight. Morlocks for the win, lol.
From
#495
April 5 2022 11:30PM
Technically, yes, I was trying to implement the cleaning process and pumping strategies for clarifying my fish pond for use in the aquaponics system I was building when the realization happened. However, there's some crossover with the lily impeller that could be credited to Jay Harman... technically speaking. That said, it's more so a product of Shauberger's, whether that's either of the three generations that continued along that path is anyone's guess. When it comes to the area of research dedicated to humidity control by passive means, no, I did not have hands on experience with that particular device. I hadn't ever dug out a cavern or cave, and there were dozens of projects on the docket before that bridge was crossed. Again, I'm not sure which specific generation of Shauberger delved into that research, so finding those old videos is/will be a chore. Plus I don't know if that was another crossover influence that I originally saw, or if it came from Shauberger's research professionally, so that makes it even more difficult. The water purifier, yes, but the other devices, no. And the realization happened before I was in the position to implement the aquaponics system on my property.
From
#496
April 6 2022 7:49PM
That's an interesting project you're working on. Essentially a dehumidifier. The device I was talking about didn't run on electricity at all, and I'm pretty sure there were no moving parts. It almost looked like a decorative brass/bronze sort of chandelier. Very interesting device, and according to the few wine makers that used them in their cellars, they did/do work. But no, I didn't have any hands on experience with them. I did have lots of experience with conventional electric driven dehumidifiers, though. More so A/C units, but the units I used in my aeroponics are aquaponics setups had a 4 stage operating system: heating, cooling, dehumidifier, recirculation. I actually melted the intake of the first one I used, lol. I set up the lamp cooling ducts directly into the intake, and when the air conditioning was activated the air coming through the vents was hot enough to melt the casing plastic. Oops, heh. That's the unit (the second one) that I piped into the garden for runoff. I ended up closing the loop of the lamp cooling with the outside and just used an inline duct fan. That's also when I used carbon dioxide saturation with a regulator and effectively hermetically sealed the grow room. I maintained 1000 ppm CO2. The plants loved it. Sorry for going on this tangent. That's great that you're engineering parts. They sound interesting and complex to make. And yeah, the synchronicity we experience is never lost on me or otherwise written off as coincidence. IHRC is a vast and very complicated subject that takes a Jesus type Christ to properly explain, but I have no doubt that when these types of things happen, it's not a mistake. It's not the first time this type of synchronicity has happened between us, and probably won't be the last. Just another example of the astronomically superior intelligence of humanity's maker as far as I'm concerned. The digging and placement of a possible shipping container designed to sustain an aquaponics system will probably need a device like you're currently working on. We were also just discussing that as a possibility... Useful that, useful.
#591
August 13 2022 1:50AM
It was a long time ago when I first started researching cavitation, but it began as a sort of grand scheme for purifying water after circulation through an aquaponics system, after plant based nitrogen (nitrates and nitrites) were absorbed. I read what seemed like thousands of research papers, some of which needed translation, and I thought I had discussed this with you but we've discussed so much I'm often confused on what we've covered in depth, and what we've just briefly scratched the surface of, but here's a couple of videos that barely skim the surface of this technology.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcqCgge_Fxs
I watched this a long time ago, but it's one of the first things that sent me down this road. I'm almost positive that I've linked this video somewhere, talking to someone (probably a troll trying to get a rise out of me) about cavitation. I've linked so many videos by now, and covered so many subjects that I apologize for just assuming I specifically linked it to you. It all starts with machining one way or another, but everything is linked together. Here's another one (apologies for using CGI to make a point) that I saw many years ago utilizing a hydro sonic pump for pretreatment of wastewater.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QVeUcM2ibfI
Contemplating the vastness of frequency variations in the realm of sound, you start to understand that humanity has been focused on the wrong thing for thousands of years. There's more research going into impossible to achieve technology like brain-internet interface computer chips than cavitation, and it's dumbfounding. Truly disgusting what humanity has dedicated their attention, time and energy to with such vastness being completely ignored. Hell...
From Brian Harner on the Enviroment
The reason for that is because I would like to see the crops actually growing on the pyramids. That’s the whole point. It’s not that I think growing crops on a wide scale is a bad thing. I do think that industrial agriculture is a good thing. But everybody needs to participate in growing their own food. Like I said, the pyramids that you see in the world right now-- they didn’t have the same problems as we do in this era. So I’ve added that, I guess you could say. There are upgrades that I've made to the actual pyramid structure that I was taught to help mitigate all of these other problems. If you were growing crops you would design your pyramid almost like an aquaponic farm: that’s really what I mean when I say that. If you grew your crops like an aquaponic farm on the pyramid's surface, you would allow the soil to replenish itself. You would take all of the onus of the introduction of food processing for the human race itself and eliminate that burden on the land-- which also needs to happen.
Related Pages
Shauberger
Water farming
Pyramids